Travel Destinations

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Posted July 24, 2009 at 9:13 am

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Open Question: If the Quran says he FOUND the sun right IN a murky water, why do some say “no, it just appeared that it did”?
This is soooooo simple people and yet muslims dint get it. Again, here’s the aya:

Quran 18:86 “Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”

1. Zul-qarnain REACHED the setting of the sun. What does that mean? It means he was traveling to a destination. Not passively sitting stationary. He arrived at a destination. There is no distance cause he REACHED IT. Hes right there!

2. he FOUND it set IN a spring of murky water. What does this mean? Ok, it doesn’t mean that he merely saw it from a distance. It means he FOUND it right IN a murky water. All translations use these same verbs. It doesnt say “It appeared to him from a distance that it sank into the ocean, but Allah knows best how humans mispercieve!” What it does say is the opposite. He REACHED the spot, he was right there, and he FOUND the sun right IN a murky water.

CASE CLOSED.
IMAM: All those translations are good. They all agree. Of course its ZulQarnain’s point of view, its about Zul Qarnain!

Do you understand what the word “FOUND” means? Theres a discovery here. When you find something you are proximate to it. So he FOUND the sun, and there it was setting in a muddy spring and NEAR IT he FOUND a magical PEOPLE!

Understand? Hes finding all these things. Its a discovery and its exactly what people of Muhammad’s day would have expected to find.
HAPPILY: Wrong! Zul Qarnain has FOUND the sun setting in a muddys spring, its not a mere observation. Why does the Quran say he REACHED the place if its just an observation. He REACHED the place and FOUND it right IN a muddy spring.

The context seals this error perfectly cause the surrounding ayas talk about Zul Qarnains discoveries. He FINDS the land og Gog and MEGOG, then he FIND the land of the setting sun then the land of the rising sun.

This errror is perfect.
MR LOGIC: Isnt this amazing. I wish every non-muslim in the world could read this. I try to tell people that Muslims really say this stuff and they dont believe me…they really dont. Its so frustrating. How can I make this any clearer?
IMAM: Whats the difference? Your kidding right? If you found her, that means your right there! Perceptual error is nil. Your right there.

Lawyers pound on such distinctions every day in courts worldover. For example “Mama, how far away were you from the dead body” “No distance at all, I was the one who found it!”.

example 2 “Did you actually find the mr. smith dead or did you just see a body from a distance and think it was him.”

Lastly…lets assume the Quran doesnt mean what it say and that this is a perceptual error. Why doesnt Allah clear this up! Why doesnt 18:87 say “but Allah knows all things and behold how Zul Qarnain mispercieved!”
LADAGIN: Of course a word can have different meanings….SO WHAT! The issue is whether theres any reason at all to believe the word FOUND means something else in this verse and the answer is clearly no! Which is why you made no effort to show how this word means something else in this verse!
LADAGIN: LMAO!! So I shouldnt give you the ooold “back then they didnt know” routine! Your talking as if I am referring to Paris in the 1940′s. Uhhh…we are talking about an illiterate man in the 7th century!!! This illiterate man didnt live in the epicenter of the ancient world, in fact, he was surrounded by some of the dumbest humans of ancient time period! Muhammad didnt live in Athens, he lived in a desert with ignorant desert people!

Even in the more advanced parts of the world only the wealthier and better educated people had a chance to know these things with more ceritude.

Bedoins werent the only people who looked at the sun from a distance and werent able figure out that the sun didnt set into the earth, many others made this mistake at this time period and after. Japanese mythology of the time has this same error.
REAL MOE: Im confused, are you saying the Yusef Ali, Pikthal, Irving, and Shakir have all translated incorrectly. Are you even taking a position or do you just want me to believe that there is a possiblity that you know better than the top scholars and that all those translations might be wrong.

Your not actually saying that the translations are wrong…are you. Why should I believe you know better than the top scholars…do you have any creditials…are you a top scholar of greater magnitutude?

Lets assume you know better than the top scholars and that, even though you dont actually take a position and claim this translation is wrong, that you did claim it was wrong…does that mean all is well? The sun doesnt set into a place on earth. Even if this aya said that he “saw” it from a distance, its still a false perception and since the Quran doesnt clear it up later with something like “But he didnt see it correctly for the sun is far away from the earth. Allah is all knowing”

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